Mikron WF3SA before and after some TLC (2024)

I bought a Mikron WF3SA a couple months ago from this picture

Well after some TLC it lookes like this

I put on a new motor and a bellow on the Z and the rest was elbowgrease
It has a aktive Heidenhain TNC114
Realy smooth running

Is this whats called pristine

Peter from Holland

At the moment this seems to be the only WF3SA for sale in Germany
And they are really sought after So we give it a try at this price
The Mikron has a much longer Y stroke of a whopping 500mm The FP2 only has 230mm
Furthermore both are quality machines Probbably one is favored above the other and V.V by some But I am no machinist so really no long term hands on experience in this matter
What I like about Deckel overall is the availability of parts and also accessories Deckel was very agressive in selling those So there are a lott of them around
Try to find a slotting head for a aciera F4 once Good luck While deckel slotting heads you can get at peacticly any german dealer

Peter from holland

Hi Peter,

That's a beautiful machine, and as you say, twice the working volume of a Deckel FP2, because of the very long Y travel.

When I started to look for a used mill in Germany, the people I talked to all advised me to buy a used Deckel. The reasoning was exactly what you said: there are lots of parts and accessories available, so if you are prepared to pay a high price you can get whatever you want, and if you are prepared to be patient, you can get many things at reasonably low cost. In retrospect, I think that was very good advice. If I had bought a used Thiel or Ruhla machine, it is MUCH harder to find these things.

The WF3SA is beautiful, I am sure you will be able to sell it for a good price.

Cheers, Bruce

Is the ram solid ?
Or if its a casting, about what section size and how thick is it ?

Just asking for general interest re: design of quality machine tools.

From the pic, it looks to be about 30 cm wide and 25 cm tall.

TNB said:

Why they felt like they needed to put *two* electrical cabinets on this machine is beyond me.
Just as one wasn't enough !

Click to expand...

In fact i like that
The cabinet on the side has all the switches and is very accessable there
In fact it is the same size and has the same functions as on a WF3
If you would make that cabinet bigger it gets clumsy real fast
and the one at the back is small enough to look not overdone

Peter from Holland

hanermo said:

Is the ram solid ?
Or if its a casting, about what section size and how thick is it ?

Just asking for general interest re: design of quality machine tools.

From the pic, it looks to be about 30 cm wide and 25 cm tall.

Click to expand...

Solid ram ???
No its a casting with the gearbox for spindlespeed inside
Probably 12-15mm thick Sectionsize I have to check

Peter from holland

I have never had the pleasure of working on anything like this. I am intrigued by the design and structure looks like a real precision tool room type of milling machine, nothing like this in my neck of the woods heck I don't think Ive ever seen anything like it in a shop here.

Is this a full CNC machine ? if so how many controlled axis's are on this particular model ? Are these machines popular in Europe ? You did a great job cleaning it up how do you plan to use it ?

Good luck nice piece of iron

Make Chips Boys !

Ron

Any info would be much appreciated.
Fwiw..
A Haas UMC, the 5 axis, is about 10-15 mm thick as well, I took pics when we had one without sheet metal in Brussels.

peterve said:

Solid ram ???
No its a casting with the gearbox for spindlespeed inside
Probably 12-15mm thick Sectionsize I have to check

Peter from holland

Click to expand...

Nice looking machine. I like the control panel having the PB's for axis moves similar to the Dialog setup, and all on the same panel as the readout....Nicely done!...

Peter:
I have never seen a Mikron in person , is the articulated arm on the non operators side of the machine there to hold the vertical head when running horizontal? (swing away?)
Guessing that it does not have a sensitive quill on the horizontal.
Does it like the Deckel use an electric "overspeed" for rapids?
Is tool change manual or hydraulic?

Think the dial type of spindle speed selection (Deckel) for me is nicer and easier to use than multi lever arrangement...
Cheers Ross

Alfa*gTA said:

Is tool change manual or hydraulic?

Click to expand...

That is curious now that you mention it as the "top hat" has a slot one would think is meant for a hydraulic or pneumatic line fitting to follow and yet there is no line. The mid 1990's Maho MH400M I used to own might be the smallest Deckel style manual mill ever made to have a hydraulic tool spindle. Next up would be either this Mikron or the Deckel FP4MK.

The neatest setup on a manual mill IMHO is the Fehlmann P50, where you simply raise the quill a bit beyond it's normal up position, and the tools release via all mechanical means...no pneumatics or hydraulics necessary.

Ron

It has a aktive DRO which means the machine can stop when the DRO reads 0.00mm
And you can store some workpaths but you still have to manualy engage the feeds

Hanermo
Section size is 240x240mm

Ross
Yes that arm is to hold the head
See pic below
Yes rapids is electrical overspeed
toolchange is manual
The multi lever speed selector I agree You must think and look and yes thats always difficult for me
Milacron
The slot is there to acces the hight stop of the quill

Peter from Holland

Milacron said:

The neatest setup on a manual mill IMHO is the Fehlmann P50, where you simply raise the quill a bit beyond it's normal up position, and the tools release via all mechanical means...no pneumatics or hydraulics necessary.

Click to expand...

Ahem... If you don't mind, could you elaborate a bit and precise the Fehlmann P50 *and* P18S ?
Not that it adds a lot to the debate, but I now have one, so I thought it was worth mentionning

TNB said:

Ahem... If you don't mind, could you elaborate a bit and precise the Fehlmann P50 *and* P18S ?
Not that it adds a lot to the debate, but I now have one, so I thought it was worth mentionning

Click to expand...

You have one..what ? The Fehlmann Picomax 50, you raise the quill with the normal handwheel a little beyond it's normal up rest and the tool pops out in your hand. Keep it up and insert a new tool, lower (or just let go of) handwheel and tool is secure in place.

In contrast I don't think the Picomax 18 has this feature... at least the one on USA eBay recently did not. I presume the P18 is standard morse taper and really a glorified drill press rather than jig borer/mill combo as the P50 is..... but other than the one on eBay recently I haven't paid any attention to the P18 in so long I don't remember really.

The P18

*has* it this quick change tooling system based on the the Fehlmann SF32 attachment.
Works exactly as you describe.
The bummer is, to really take advantage of that feature you must carefully select the different tools you plan to use so they are more or less the same length.
Otherwise, you have to raise or lower the machine (and loose some accuracy in the positionning), or work with the quill extended (wich can lead to other problems in terms of accuracy and rigidity).

Beside that, I've seen quite a lot of P50 pictures on the net and while it definitely has some features the P18 doesn't (such as the power up and down, hydraulic clamping on the column and auto downfeed), I wonder if all these widgets are enough to make the machine fall in the "jig-borer" category really.
They probably make for a more user-friendly machine, but is there that much difference to be seen on the finished part ?

TNB said:

The P18

S

*has* it this quick change tooling system based on the the Fehlmann SF32 attachment.
Works exactly as you describe.
The bummer is, to really take advantage of that feature you must carefully select the different tools you plan to use so they are more or less the same length.
Otherwise, you have to raise or lower the machine (and loose some accuracy in the positionning), or work with the quill extended (wich can lead to other problems in terms of accuracy and rigidity).

Beside that, I've seen quite a lot of P50 pictures on the net and while it definitely has some features the P18 doesn't (such as the power up and down, hydraulic clamping on the column and auto downfeed), I wonder if all these widgets are enough to make the machine fall in the "jig-borer" category really.
They probably make for a more user-friendly machine, but is there that much difference to be seen on the finished part ?

Click to expand...

The P50 head moves up/down the column under power...so no big deal to change height (plus on mine there were optional 4 sets of stops for this), but the hydraulic clampling is the huge deal accuracy wise as it pushes a wedge into the corresponding wedge slot in the solid steel (not hollow) column for incredible repeatability between head positions on the column.

Also the push buttons at the end of each handwheel spoke for electromagnetic power feed are nice. Plus the integral (integral as in you don't even see them) Heidenhain scales in the table for the DRO.

Interesting about the "S" version of the P18...didn't know about that one.

As an aside, the fellow that bought my P50 is a sort of odd duck that has never used it !

Still sitting in storage with 10,000 sq ft of other machines he thinks he will use someday. (including a rare Deckel Maho DMU35) I tried to buy it back from him about a year ago but he paid too much for it and wouldn't come off more than 100 bucks so it sits unused still far as I know. Plus I've decided it would be better to jump the shark and import a Fehlmann P54 here if the prices ever come down a bit more.